2349 replies to this topic

[Fear the Four]

Granted, KI could always build something cheaper...how much does Intamin charge for large Plug N' Play woodies? I can't seem to find it on the internet...El Toro, how much did SFGadv pay for you...if it's not too much, then perhaps KI should just demo SOB and build another big wooden coaster there...

Balder at Liseberg, which was built in 2003, was in the 10 million dollar range. Same type of ride as El toro but smaller.

[Bennett]

The obvious answer is...leave the original beginnig and lift hill, tear down the rest, and put in Mr. Bonestripper.

[Hank]

I said it a while back.....Have the SOB train come out of the station, get to the lift hill but only have it go up a lift hill high enough to return to the station. You'd have a new kiddie coaster - SOB the third! (and don't forget to smile for the picture)

[TheBEASTunchained]

Does anyone know if Kings Island still has the old Geauga Lake wooden coaster trains from Raging Wolf Bobs, and The Villain?

If they do, Maybe if Son Of BEAST gets fixed up a little, they can use those old trains, If there still Usable. (Just a thought)

[TheCrypt]

Or they could use them at another Cedar Fair property... But I doubt they still do, they were probably auctioned off along with everything-- I still wish I had a few million to spare for Double Loop! I would have given it to Kings Island, Dorney, MA, or WoF! Somewhere that needs it.

[The Interpreter]

Double Loop was welded together, not bolted. Relocating it would have been nearly impossible.

And Son of Beast has wider gauge track than other wooden coasters. The Gerstlauer trains required substantial modifications to run on Son of Beast.

[TheCrypt]

^1. It was a joke. 2. Why would it be welded together? 3. Why aren't any other coasters welded, but bolted?

[The Interpreter]

Early Arrows were welded. Double Loop was one of the last.

[Gordon Bombay]

Double Loop was welded together, not bolted. Relocating it would have been nearly impossible.

And Son of Beast has wider gauge track than other wooden coasters. The Gerstlauer trains required substantial modifications to run on Son of Beast.

^And those Gerstlauer trains were purchased, modified and put into service on Son of Beast while the former Geauga Lake trains were all one site and available. IF the GL trains are still there, I doubt they'd in any way be reusable. I doubt the existing SOB trains are in any good shape considering they've been sitting out in the elements unprotected, unmaintained for several seasons now.

It's interesting to think how SOB's structure could be repurposed into a new ride and at one time I believe constructing an alternative to the Rose Bowl was considered. It will never happen though for the same reasons the ride is not running now. No one wants to be associated with it. The ride has an awful reputation whether deserved in the eyes of enthusiasts or not.

It won't get Rocky Mountain treatment, cause how's every news article gonna sound with "The ride that USED to be Son of Beast and sent people to the hospital once is now..."

The ride's done. Writing is on the wall, you should read it and not ignore it.

[railroader19]

I'm hoping that they tear it down and build a new coaster that's bigger than DB

[TheCrypt]

^Technically, we don't need a new coaster. Son of Beast will sit for as long as it needs to sit, and there's nothing you can do about it. And the "Save Son of Beast!!!!111one!" crowd can't, either. I'd much prefer a mega lite, or something along the lines of The Beast.

[Browntggrr]

Early Arrows were welded. Double Loop was one of the last.

And if I am not mistaken, Magnum was the last.

[xXDrummerKiDXx]

Well if they decide to say "Hey! Let's tear this down!" I want a peice of it! My favorite ride out there!

[goodyellowkorn182]

^Technically, we don't need a new coaster. Son of Beast will sit for as long as it needs to sit, and there's nothing you can do about it. And the "Save Son of Beast!!!!111one!" crowd can't, either.

I wish so much that someone could convince them of this. What good could petitions or public outcry (especially from an apparently uninformed group) do when safety is the issue? If the group had their way, I think many members would have the trains added to the track tomorrow and send the ride on its way. And worse, many members would probably line up and ride it without a second thought! They think it's as simple as "bring back the movie names!" or "change it back to Paramount!" and as we all know, arguing with them gets exactly no where. It's frustrating.

It's like children trying to annoy their mother into letting them play with knives - they refuse (or maybe, are unable) to consider that the mother may be a wee bit smarter or that she may have their own best interests at heart.

[xXDrummerKiDXx]

@GYK , Yes safety is the main concern. If it were up too me, I would spend every waking minute trying to figure out ways to fix it. Unfortunetly I am a 15 year old teenager who barely manages a 3.5GPA so I can't really figure that out...

But my point is instead of just slapping on the trains and saying "Allllllll Cleeeear!" , why not figure out how to fix it, and well... FIX IT!
And No i'm not saying it's THAT easy. . . Unfortunetly but give this monster one last fix, if it doesn't work right or if someone gets hurt, then tear it down for good.

[Titan]

Who's to say they're not working on a decision now? Stuff like this can't be rushed. The safety of the park's patrons is far more important than making a rushed decision that may end up with a negative outcome again. So please stop saying the park needs to, the park doesn't "need" to do anything. If SOB was in really bad condition they probably would have done something by now.


If they open the ride and another person happens to get injured that would the give the park a terrible reputation. SOB has already been given a bad name, but that incident would make the situation worse.

[KI FANATIC 37]

Technically, it doesn't need fixing. It was cleared in 09 by the state of Ohio. It's the park that doesn't like how the ride operates.

Wonder if the state checked it now, would they still clear it?

[xXDrummerKiDXx]

Good Question, with it just sitting there in the open, it may need some tweeks.

I also feel like SOB was shut down cause of ONE rider.
"Ride at Your Own Risk" and riders should know their limitation. SOB doesn't need fix, true.

[homestar92]

Technically, it doesn't need fixing. It was cleared in 09 by the state of Ohio. It's the park that doesn't like how the ride operates.

Wonder if the state checked it now, would they still clear it?

If I remember correctly, it was also cleared in 2010, but KI chose not to run it that year. It's pretty obvious that it was cleared in 09, seeing as it ran for a good part of the season.

Also, having never been through Wolf Pack, I have to wonder... How thoroughly have they gutted the station? Suppose it were a perfect world and they could make Son of Beast as smooth as Diamondback and they were to reopen it. Would they have to completely rebuild the station to do so? And don't worry, I'm not one who believes it will EVER be back, nor do I think anything with a "Beast" moniker will ever lay on that plot of land after its imminent demolition. I would consider it to be a "curse" of sorts.

[goodyellowkorn182]

Good Question, with it just sitting there in the open, it may need some tweeks.

I also feel like SOB was shut down cause of ONE rider.
"Ride at Your Own Risk" and riders should know their limitation. SOB doesn't need fix, true.

Hopefully I'm misunderstanding but let's be clear: Son of Beast would need more than a "few tweaks," and it would "need fixed" to ever operate again.

The ride was cleared for operation by the state before its accident and after it hurt passengers. The paperwork all checks out on it and engineers approve the structure... Okay, so what?

The ride is too violent, too rough, and too ill-conceived to operate as it did. I'm not saying I didn't enjoy the ride - I did. But a park cannot ask its patrons to ride defensively or warn them that this ride is so extreme, it may cause serious health problems. Even if the ride was not solely or directly to blame for the woman's aneurism three years ago, there is no question that people have gotten off the ride with painful side effects. Even just general discomfort cannot be a common, accepted symptom of having ridden a ride in this age. Is it extreme? Sure. But there's a line that's not worth the risk of crossing.

The park also never gave any indication that the ride was closed then or is closed now due to the reported injury in 2009. Not once. Terpy is fond of saying that just because B happens after A, it doesn't mean that A caused B. Maybe somewhere off the record, the report was an impetus to close it, but you'd be mad to think it's the only reason or even the main one, I think...

If the ride ever operates again, I can't imagine it would bear much resemblance to the ride of 2009, much less to the ride of 2000.

"Know your limitations" is one thing. But you have noticed in a court of law and outside of it that the park and others seem to agree that operating a ride that is violent and unpredictable does not fall under "rider responsibility."

[xXDrummerKiDXx]

Listen, I'm not saying that the ride DIDN'T have problems. Every ride has its small problems here and there (SoB's more frequently and more dangerously). And all rides get a bit rough (SoB's, more violent)

Let's take Vortex for example (and this is just me, so don;t say anything about guest being different) We've all had our fair share of head aches from that ride. We can all (or most) agree upon that. But I can't recall one time (out of the 34 times) I've ridden SoB and gotten more than a slight head ache. REMEMBER: This is just me.

[RingMaster]

If I remember correctly, it was also cleared in 2010, but KI chose not to run it that year. It's pretty obvious that it was cleared in 09, seeing as it ran for a good part of the season.

Also, having never been through Wolf Pack, I have to wonder... How thoroughly have they gutted the station? Suppose it were a perfect world and they could make Son of Beast as smooth as Diamondback and they were to reopen it. Would they have to completely rebuild the station to do so? And don't worry, I'm not one who believes it will EVER be back, nor do I think anything with a "Beast" moniker will ever lay on that plot of land after its imminent demolition. I would consider it to be a "curse" of sorts.

The only thorough gutting of the station was the removal of the queue rails; the track is still in place but with a platform placed over it as a makeshift floor for Wolf Pack.

[xXDrummerKiDXx]

Sorry, the "Edit" button on my PS3 doesn't work. Sorry for Double Posting...

Son Of Beast had it's problems, I'm just saying in MY case (and Most of my family and all of my friends) we've seemed to get worse pains from Vortex than SoB.

Another thing is, it is rough, my question is, do you think re-tracking it (Like Original Beast) would make it a little less violent?

[goodyellowkorn182]

No. Re-tracking never made a difference before. Steel coasters and wooden coasters are very different. Vortex's awkwardness is very common of Arrow's creations. It's their style - whether purposeful or not - to have awkward track transitions and unusual elements designed before computers dominated the industry (For Busch Gardens' Loch Ness Monster, a piece of track arrived curving the wrong way. It was heated and re-angled on-site). Son of Beast was not the victim of poor aging or characteristic-but-safe manufacturer styling. It was a bad ride (and to re-state: I liked it and enjoyed my rides on it).

The problems with the ride run much, much deeper than re-tracking. The rose bowl area, in particular, is just poorly designed and produced extreme, extreme forces while also producing violent reactions (commonly and appropriately, "jackhammering") on the train and the riders attached to it.

The layout is ill-conceived, the planning was (admittedly) sub-par, the concept was too far ahead of its time, and the physical construction was undertaken by two companies who were unprepared for the scale, the latter of which might as well have been reading the directions in Spanish while they went.

If the park operators at the time had waited a few years longer and been willing to spend a few dollars more, they might've been able to catch Intamin's Plug-n-Play wooden coaster line right out of the gate. Intamin, I'm sure, would've created a fantastic, smooth-as-steel, 200-foot wooden coaster that would still rank among the best in the world, and if any manufacturer were willing to try a modern loop, it would've been Intamin. Son of Beast is the tallest wooden roller coaster on Earth. The second, third, and forth place coasters are all Intamin Plug-n-Play wooden coasters, and all are very highly rated, celebrated, and adored by the community.

Even now, I think the only way to salvage the name Son of Beast (not the ride) would be to completely tear it down and either build a true sequel (a CGI, forest-enshrouded terrain coaster that stands a hair taller than the original) or to have Intamin build a record-breaking wooden coaster in its place. Experimental tamperings from outside companies (having Intamin work on the ride to their ability, Iron Horse track, etc) might work, but would the park OR the associated manufacturer be willing to take the risk again? Don't assume Intamin would WANT to overhaul any part of the current Son of Beast... A "right price" might not even exist.

[AintNutinElse2Do]

OK, some more thoughts expanding on my previous comment a few post ago...what would I personally do with what I said would stay of SOB? Hmm...well...let's assume Intamin agrees to "build the new coaster on what's left of Son of Beast..." I would want a massive, out-and-back section similar to SFGadv's El Toro to replace to "Rose Bowl" section of the ride- in fact, very similar to El Toro in this section. The ride would go out, turn around, and come back- just like this: Afterwards, the ride would connect quite nicely with the current 2nd helix- which would be rebuilt to provide actual lateral g-forces like helixes are SUPPOSED to do. A tunnel here would also be quite welcome, and a nod to "Original" Beast. The section after the 2nd helix would also get minor modifications, to provide some more airtime and possibly include a few overbanked turns along this section before the ride returns to the station- in the same manner the current SOB does, in fact. If this refurb makes the new woodie longer than The Beast- so be it. I'd rather see KI break its own record than see some park in China do it, and Holiday World broke their own water coaster world record (Mammoth's length>Wildebeest's), so why can't KI break theirs? Plus, this would put an airtime-packed, smooth, Intamin Plug N' Play wooden coaster in the midwest so people would not have to drive all the way to SFGadv to ride one- a ride that would nicely fit in with the rest of KI's lineup. If Intamin does refuse, but Rocky Mountain agrees, this layout is still possible but I'd have to wonder if they would keep it a wooden coaster... Just an idea.

Let me first say that I did not create the bones of the following recreation I have to give Spez credit from NoLimitsExchange. What I did do was added a little air-time from the station to the lift. Steepened the drop and added a floater hill between the drop and the following hill. Removed the rose bowl added a camel back followed by a hammerhead like turnaround another camel back, a tunnel on the second helix and some various reprofiling here and there to add a bit more airtime. That said I miss SOB but I'm not sure anymore that even drastic changes would make the ride great. No doubt it could be good but great is what's needed for that kind of investment and I've been one of the biggest supporters of SOB. I should also note that Spez from NLE had a much better support structure and various other 3ds that I unfortunately butchered or removed.

[dudecoasterman]

Even now, I think the only way to salvage the name Son of Beast (not the ride) would be to completely tear it down and either build a true sequel (a CGI, forest-enshrouded terrain coaster that stands a hair taller than the original) or to have Intamin build a record-breaking wooden coaster in its place.

I'm just trying to clarify what you said, by CGI did you mean GCI as in Great Coasters International? or is there a company that I've never heard of called CGI?

[goodyellowkorn182]

Sorry, yes, GCI. Computer Generated Imagery would also create a worthwhile Son of Beast, I'm sure. Thanks!

[KIfan1980]

I also feel like SOB was shut down cause of ONE rider.

According to the park itself, you are correct in this statement. That rider was the GM who was not happy with the ride experience

Yes, I know what you meant, but it's time to get real - while Inenjoyed the ride (with loop more than without), it has, through it's life, become a liability for the park that is not worth further effort to try and salvage.

[TheBEASTunchained]

In case you missed the fun and safety guides up front, The Son Of BEAST is a high speed, turbulent roller coaster ride with quick turns and sudden drops. People with exsisting back, neck, or bone problems, recent sugery or illness, pregnancy, high blood pressure, heart condition, or other medical conditions, should refrain from riding the Son Of BEAST. Please be aware of the recommendations and restrictions of this ride. And if you have any questions, Please contact the ride attendant.

[shark6495]

In case you missed the fun and safety guides up front, The Son Of BEAST is a high speed, turbulent roller coaster ride with quick turns and sudden drops. People with exsisting back, neck, or bone problems, recent sugery or illness, pregnancy, high blood pressure, heart condition, or other medical conditions, should refrain from riding the Son Of BEAST. Please be aware of the recommendations and restrictions of this ride. And if you have any questions, Please contact the ride attendant.

And? What if I didnt know I have an exsisting condition? What if I have normal everything but just 1 weak wall in the artery in my brain. BEtween the jack hammering and constant throwing back and forth, if I hit my head wrong I could pop the artery....

Plus where does it say "Every rider should ride defensively to be safe on this ride. Please do not look to your left or right. Hold tightly to the bar and lean?